Trump says he will refuse to take part in next debate after organizers declare it will be held virtually.

“I’m not gonna waste my time in a virtual debate. That’s not what debating is all about — you sit behind the computer and do a debate, it’s ridiculous. And then they cut you off whenever they want,” Trump said.

In a statement made a few hours later, Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien said the second debate should be pushed back to Oct. 22, the planned date of the third debate, and insisted that another debate should be held on Oct. 29, five days before the election.

Joe Biden’s deputy campaign manager, Kate Bedingfield, said Biden agreed to the Oct. 22 session but turned down the idea of a later meeting. She said Biden would hold a town hall on Oct. 15 in lieu of the planned debate; ABC News later said it would host the town hall.

The day-long battle centered on plans for the highest-profile events remaining in the general election campaign.

With less than four weeks to go before Election Day, and as voters across the country already are casting early ballots, Trump remains cloistered in the White House, where on Thursday aides again declined to clarify details of his illness, including when he last registered as negative, a time element necessary to chart the likelihood of him spreading it.

Trump came out aggressively in the first debate on Sept. 29, brawling with Biden and moderator Chris Wallace. But it did nothing to improve his standing in the race; Biden leads both in national polls and in several states Trump needs to win to secure a second term.

The second and third debates had loomed as having the most potential to alter the course of the race, an opportunity that Trump cut in half by refusing to take part in the sort of virtual replacement that has become commonplace for schools and businesses since the pandemic exploded this spring. He also put himself in the position of arguing against safety precautions that might protect others in proximity to him.

Frank J. Fahrenkopf Jr., the head of the commission organizing the presidential debates, declined to comment on the latest Trump statements.

An official familiar with the debate commission’s process said both sides would need to agree to adding a later debate, and it would be a challenge to pull off the logistics with so little time to spare. “It might not even be possible to do it then,” the official said.

Plans for the fall gatherings were upended early last Friday, when Trump announced via Twitter that he had tested positive for the coronavirus. That came little more than two days after the first presidential debate.

Both Biden and Wallace have since undergone testing for the coronavirus, out of concern that the president might have been contagious during the event. Biden’s campaign said he remained negative in tests for the virus, most recently Thursday morning. Earlier, Wallace also said he had tested negative.

Soon after returning to the White House on Monday after four days at the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, Trump announced that he would attend next week’s debate.

Yet a person involved in the debate commission’s discussions said there was trepidation from staff members, and others who produce the debate, about being near Trump and his team so soon after his diagnosis and as additional members of his White House staff and other allies continue to test positive for the virus.

Concerns also rose because the president’s entourage at the first debate, in Cleveland, had violated rules requiring all parties inside the debate hall to wear masks, removing theirs even as the Biden team wore facial coverings.

On Wednesday night, with the same mask mandate in effect, Vice President Pence’s wife, Karen, walked onto the stage after her husband’s debate with Sen. Kamala D. Harris (D-Calif.) ended, hugged him and turned to wave at the audience, maskless.

The changes for the next debate were announced nine hours later.

“In order to protect the health and safety of all involved with the second presidential debate … the second presidential debate will take the form of a town meeting, in which the candidates would participate from separate remote locations,” the commission said, setting off a firestorm from the president and his team.

After Trump pulled out of the debate in his Fox Business interview, his campaign manager Stepien launched a fusillade of insults at the debate organizers, calling the virtual format “a sad excuse to bail out Joe Biden” and said the president will “hold a rally instead” on Oct. 15.

“For the swamp creatures at the Presidential Debate Commission to now rush to Joe [Biden’s] defense by unilaterally canceling an in-person debate is pathetic. That’s not what debates are about or how they’re done,” Stepien, who has been in isolation due to his own coronavirus diagnosis, said in a statement. “Here are the facts: President Trump will have posted multiple negative tests before the debate, so there is no need for this unilateral declaration.”

Biden told reporters in Wilmington, Del., on Thursday morning that he was not sure the president would actually back out of a virtual debate.

“We don’t know what the president is going to do. He changes his mind every second, so for me to comment on that now would be irresponsible,” Biden said before flying to Arizona for campaign events. “I’m going to follow the commission’s recommendations.”

His campaign initially said Biden would participate in the virtual event as scheduled on Oct. 15, but changed course after learning Trump would not.

“Joe Biden will find an appropriate place to take questions from voters directly on October 15th, as he has done on several occasions in recent weeks. Given the President’s refusal to participate on October 15th, we hope the Debate Commission will move the Biden-Trump Town Hall to October 22nd, so that the President is not able to evade accountability,” Bedingfield said in a statement. She noted that every presidential candidate since 1992 has participated in a town hall-style event.

Stepien then made his alternative pitch for an Oct. 22 debate and another on Oct. 29.

“Americans deserve to hear directly from both presidential candidates on these dates,” Stepien said.

Bedingfield dismissed that proposal outright, noting that the campaign agreed to the original dates in June.

“ Trump chose today to pull out of the October 15th debate,” she said in a statement. “Trump’s erratic behavior does not allow him to rewrite the calendar, and pick new dates of his choosing. . . . Donald Trump can show up, or he can decline again. That’s his choice.”

Fahrenkopf did not immediately respond to requests for comment on the campaigns’ proposal to push back the town hall-style debate to Oct. 22, the date originally scheduled to hold the final, traditional-style presidential debate in Nashville.

Fahrenkopf said both campaigns were given five minutes’ notice before the announcement that the Oct. 15 debate would be virtual. The campaigns were not asked to consent to the decision, he said.

He said the commission had evaluated the safety implications of an Oct. 15 debate with the Cleveland Clinic, which has handled precautions for the gatherings, in light of the diagnosis of the president and others, and decided that it would be safest to hold a virtual debate.

“There is no requirement that any presidential candidate debate,” he said. “It is up to the candidate to decide whether or not he or she wants to debate.”

He added: “It has to be safety first.”

Trump advisers are expected to lobby the debate commission to change course, advisers say. The Republican National Committee on Thursday afternoon sent out a statement critical of individual members of the nonpartisan commission.

Since arriving back at the White House, Trump, 74, has insisted that his condition has improved, and said Thursday that he does not think he is contagious. He has not supplied results of any tests confirming that contention, nor have his doctors in the limited information they have released.

But health officials have suggested that the president could be contagious through Oct. 15, which had raised questions about the safety not only of Biden, 77, but also the moderator and questioners should the event be held in person.

In Wednesday’s vice-presidential debate, Pence and Harris were seated at separate tables and separated by plexiglass after days of back-and-forth between the campaigns about safety precautions given the coronavirus outbreak at the White House.

All told, at least 21 known cases are connected to the White House and the Trump campaign.

Annie Linskey contributed to this report.

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